Crezio De Souza

In the martial arts you hope to develop and grow within the arts you practice. But even more than that, I have found that what makes the real difference is the friendships you make on your path. With your teachers, students and training partners many interesting and life changing relationships can develop. As always, even if you have a positive outlook in this area, you will have people burn you. In my experience this only serves to cause your core group to become stronger and in some way for you to recognize real people. Peter Irving is one of those real guys. Pete and I have been training together for quite a few years now. He is a tough as nails MMA fighter. Pete’s teacher is a BJJ legend - Crezio de Souza, who is one of the original pioneers of modern MMA. I have heard a lot about Crezio from Pete but also my BJJ teacher, World Champion Leo Negao.

Leo had often talked to me about Crezio with great respect. So it was great news to hear that Crezio would be coming over to the UK each year now. I jumped at the chance to train with him. It was very interesting training with Crezio and gaining from his vast experience. Rolling with Crezio was a learning experience that I can’t wait to repeat! I can see why Pete really connected with his style and old school mentality. So, I am sure you find this interview of great interest!

P.I. Tell us a little about your career as a fighter

C.D.S. – I was born in to Jiu-Jitsu, it’s the family business. My father, Crezao (Crezio senior) is one of Helio Gracie’s Black belts, and one of the first Vale Tudo fighters to represent Jiu-Jitsu. My father used to take on street fightersr.It was a very different sport in those days, without the regulations and time limits of MMA. I fought many bouts against much bigger men, without gloves, and head butting and punching to the groin were allowed. Only eye gouging and biting were deemed illegal.

P.I So what was the toughest fight in your Vale Tudo career?

C.D.S. My toughest fight, in terms of technical difficulty, was against Johil (De Oliveira). Johil was one of the greatest Luta livre fighters. It was a very significant fight in the rivalry of Jiu-Jitsu and Luta livre, we were both at the height of our powers at the time of the bout, the stadium was enormous, the crowd was vast and press attention was very high. The pressure on this fight was tremendous, and I was very proud to defeat such a good technician as Johil.

On the other hand, my most physically tough fight was against another Luta Livre fighter, Alan Carvalho. Alan was 15 years younger than me and over 15 kilos heavier. When I fought him I didn’t have the necessary conditioning, I was out of shape but took the fight on short notice simply because we needed the money. Sometimes in life a man must go against his better judgment because the needs of his family come first. The rounds were 30 minutes, followed by two 15-minute periods. I won the first round, but in the second period my gas ran out, and when I was knocked down the referee stepped in. Even though I was defeated I’m prouder of this fight than any other, because although everything was against me, age, size, preparation, all of the factors in fighting, I still stepped forward and fought. I did what I had to do- in spite of everything.

My fight against Dan Henderson was very tough as well. That’s the one fight that I still feel a little bad about. I’m not saying that I was winning the fight, but I was still very much in it and I deserved the chance to see what the outcome would have been, win or lose. I’d taken him down, passed his guard, mounted and I got reversed. He threw down a few shots at me from inside my guard, some connected and I evaded some, but I wasn’t in serious danger. Then the Ref stepped in and waved the fight off, it was an outrageous piece of refereeing, and it was because the ref was a kick boxer and there was a lot of bad blood between him and the Jiu-Jitsu gang, so he seized the first opportunity he could to stop jiu-jitsu winning the tournament. Henderson and his camp acknowledged graciously that it was a bad stoppage and agreed to a rematch. Unfortunately whilst training for that I lost my sight in one eye which forced me in to a premature retirement.

P.I. During your time here in England many people have asked about Luta livre and the rivalry with Jiu-jitsu, can you explain to us the history of this feud?

C.D.S. It’s just that – History. Nobody is really concerned about that these days. I myself have taught classes to Luta Livre guys, unimaginable back in the 80’s, but today it’s a dead issue. At the time though, it was a kind of gang war. Some areas of Rio were controlled by Jiu-Jitsu gangs and some by Luta-Livre. If you entered the Luta Livre territory you risked being badly beaten, but I had a girlfriend who lived deep in the heart of a Luta Livre area. Many times I had to run for my life on my way home from her house, but she was very hot, so it was worth the risk!

P.I Some people have proposed a theory to me that the rivalry was about the class division, that Jiu-Jitsu was exclusively for the rich and Luta Livre was for those that couldn’t afford the Kimono?

C.D.S. Hmmm…that’s not really true. Perhaps early on it was mostly the likes of Doctors or high ranking military officials who could afford the private training from the Gracie family, but my own father for example, he was not a rich man. We grew up in the Favella, we had nothing, only what Jiu-jitsu provided for us. Carlson in particular opened the doors for anyone who wanted to learn and quite quickly Jiu-Jitsu became an art for the everyman, just as luta Livre was.
It’s not so relevant to today’s sport, as style vs. style died out and was replaced by Mixed martial arts. At the time though, a Jiu-Jitsu fighter would never fight another jiu-jitsu fighter in Vale Tudo, and when I won, their where cries from the crowd of “Jiu-Jitsu! Jiu-Jitsu!”, not my name, but the name of the art. That was the point then, not individual fame, but the glory of the art.
In the end the rivalry hurt our sport more than it helped us, and as a result of the violence that spilled out of the ring and in to the streets, we found ourselves outlawed, and Vale Tudo fights became illegal in most parts of Brazil.

P.I Can you tell us a little more about being a part of the Carlson Gracie team?

C.D.S. Carlson was a great coach, but in all honestly I can’t actually recall a single instance of him demonstrating a particular technique to me. What was special about him was his ability to instil confidence in his athletes. Because Carlson had complete faith in me, it was so much easier to believe in myself and therefore perform to the best of my abilities. That’s what I hope to do with my fighters, inspire that kind of total confidence. I like to be more technical, and a little more scientific with regards to conditioning, but ultimately it’s that ability to inspire confidence that sets a great coach aside from a good coach.

One time, a street fighter came in to Carlson’s , and issued a challenge, saying “ Are you this Carlson? I hear you think you’re some kind of porradeiro”, (meaning literally ‘a puncher’ but suggests that he thinks he’s a hard man) Carlson responded calmly that he wasn’t a “porradeiro”, but a professional martial artist, a Jiu-Jitsu fighter, and that he was happy to answer his challenge. Carlson took him on the mat and quickly took him down and took his back, sinking in a choke with little fuss. As per usual Carlson instructed his students to carry the defeated out on to the street and leave him lying there as a warning to other would be challengers. As they carried the unconscious street fighter out, but then it occurred to Carlson that such a cocky individual as this would not show any respect for what had happened. He’d probably go out tomorrow and brag that he’d fought Carlson the day before, and look- not a mark on him. So he instructed them to put him down and proceeded to sit on the mount and beat the man’s face black and blue till his eyes swelled shut, as a lesson to him and anyone else who was thinking about invading his academy. That’s the difference between now and then. The submission doesn’t hold as much fear for people, they can tap before the arm breaks or the choke goes on and they walk away. That didn’t used to signify the end, just the beginning of the one sided beating you’d take once you where no longer capable of defending yourself.

P.I What are your plans for the future?

C.D.S. I think I’ve been quiet for too long, just minding my own business and teaching in my academy. I want to get out in the world again. I think I need to become a little less blunt with people and co-operate more. I have plans to start an MMA promotion in Petropolis, and perhaps bring over some of my students from the U.K. to fight in Brazil.

It’s been great to see the explosion of Mixed Martial arts over here in England. I want to maintain my involvement, get back out here and teach more about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I’ve met a lot of people here, young athletes with a lot of potential and talent, but I’m concerned that some of these people may be being misled by poor coaches, paying their money and pouring in their effort while being guided by people who don’t really understand fighting themselves or don’t have the technical grounding to teach grappling properly. That’s why I’m working hard to improve my English. Right now I’m always working through a translator, which is really another barrier to overcome in trying to communicate my passion and love for what I do across to the student. That’s very important to me, that I pass not only the method, but the love of the art.
I’ve written a book, and I may at some point look to have it published, but probably in English and release it in the U.S and Europe rather than in Brazil. It’s not a book of positions, but rather a manual of strategy and psychology. I don’t really believe that one can effectively teach techniques with a book, a lot of these books promise “Miracle” positions and deliver very little in reality. Mostly they are simply money-spinners. In my book what I hope to communicate is the mentality of a champion and how to arrive there.

It’s the same with teaching. A lot of Brazilians have come over and given seminars, just simply passing position after position, promising wonders and dazzling people with a little bit of funk, but in reality they’ve given away very little of practical value. I’ve been striving to leave people with a method, with an idea of how to train correctly. Passing techniques is simple, but it’s inevitable that people will forget essential details and those techniques will let them down. What I’ve been doing here is leaving people with principles, and that will endure and guide the people who have studied with me in the correct direction while I’m away.

P.I After a lifetime in Martial arts, do you still feel that same love for what you do? Was there ever a time you thought about taking up another profession?

C.D.S.. Sometimes it’s been difficult, of course. Like when I lost my eyesight for example. Brazil is not a rich country and it can be hard for a fighter to make a living for his family, but it’s different for me than it is for most people. I didn’t choose to be a fighter, it’s the life I was born in to. I didn’t have another avenue open to me even if I had wanted it, but the love I have for Jiu-jitsu has sustained me through the hardest of times.

P.I the accusation that has been levelled at you many times is that you are a great fighter but a terrible self-promoter or businessman, why is that?

C.D.S. Perhaps it’s not in my nature to make big noises, I’ve always preferred to “Do my talking in the ring” and let my actions speak for themselves. It was maybe a little unfortunate that my era came a little too soon. My peers like Sperry and Bustamante went on to Pride and became known worldwide shortly after I was forced to retire, while my feats were consigned to obscurity. It’s the same in any career though, you can work for money, or for the love of your profession. There are many plastic surgeons in Brazil who give breast implants for rich women, or unscrupulously give lipo suction to 16-year-old girls, and those guys live very good lifestyles, driving around in BMW’s or Lexus’s. On the other hand there are plastic surgeons who work at free clinics, giving surgeries to children with cleft palates or other deformities, that guy takes the bus to work. But consider the quality of their work, which would you rather be?I have always worked for the love of what I do, and though the rewards may not be financial, there are still great rewards to be had.

Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun system. Teacher of Tui Na Chinese Massage Therapy

He is also the UK representative for Guro Mark Wiley in the Filipino martial arts and Sensei Eddy Millis of Shark Tank in NHB/Grappling.

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