Alan Orr Interview

Alan Orr has been involved in the martial arts since 1985, specialising in Wing Chun Kuen. He has learned the complete Chu Sai Lei Wing Chun system from his teacher Robert Chu. He also trained in many weapon-based arts as well as ground fighting arts. His training has included many Qi Gong and meditation methods. Alan continues to study with his teacher Robert Chu and has been honoured to represent the Chu Sau Lei system in the UK. He is also a practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine and studies the Chu system of Chinese medicine.

Bob Sykes: Thanks for coming up to visit us. It’s good to put a face to a name.

Alan Orr: Thank you for inviting me, Bob.

BS: I understand that you have been training in the martial arts for some time. What path have you taken?

AO: I started martial arts training when I was fourteen or fifteen years old. Firstly with a Wado Ru Karate for a short period, then on to Thai boxing for a couple of years. After that I wanted to learn another art that was going to give me a different view of what was out there, so I trained in Aikido for some time. I couldn’t really decide what I was looking for, did I want a system which was more combat based or did I want a system which was more energy based? What I wanted was both, but I had just not found it so far. I had been reading MAI from day one of my training, so I checked out the guys in the mag and learned a lot about what people say and train in and so on. This helped me realise I had to check out a lot more systems before I put my time into hard training. I therefore spent about a year or so training at different schools trying to find the art that suited me. I suppose this was early cross training, because the experience gave me a very clear idea about good foundations in training. I then found Wing Chun and became very dedicated to the art. I could see the potential in the sensitivity training of Wing Chun. To be able to develop one’s skill to become part of the unconscious mind really appealed to me. I could see this might be an endless path for development, not just in the art, but in day to day life. After maybe six years hard training (and I mean hard training, not just going to class) I became somewhat disillusioned with my training as I knew there must be more to this art than I had been taught so far. I asked questions, which had not been and could not be answered. It was then I needed some new spark to my main interest. I therefore started training in the Filipino martial arts with Pat O’Malley and then with Jude Tucker and also JKD with various people. This helped me through a dark time in my Wing Chun training as I had left my teacher and was just training with friends to maintain my skill. A few year passed and I was then introduced to a guy from Greece (who likes to stay low key, so I will not mention his name) who really impressed me with his skill. I would have to say that he was the best Wing Chun fighter I had met at that time. We became very good friends and I trained with him for about two years. He showed me many things not taught by any of the teachers I had seen in this country. Unfortunately as time went by we could see our paths going in different directions. I also paid a visit to see Rick Young and have to say it was a great learning curve for me. Rick is such a nice guy and a very humble teacher. He inspired me more than I could thank him for. Also at this point I had maybe a years training in BJJ and Rick really gave me a good insight to the attributes of grappling. After that I met Robert Chu, who I knew from day one had the level of understanding I was looking for, and was very lucky to be accepted as his student. Well, I say lucky, but I believe luck is when opportunity meets preparation. It was my karma and my time to meet my guide. Since then I have been training the Chu Sau Lei system. You see Robert set me free from my suffering in the system and gave me all the answers to the questions I had plus more. We are on the same path, and Robert is showing me the way. I have also continued my training in the Filipino martial arts with Shami Hauque who is an excellent exponent of Kali Ilustrisimo and as far as grappling goes I follow Matt Furey’s methods.

BS: What is different about the system you are teaching?

AO: Well Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun is my teacher’s expression of his Wing Chun, the way he sees it working. You see you have to understand the way my teacher thinks in order to understand this Wing Chun. Anything he has an interest in he will take it apart and work it out. He is a great problem solver. Many people will just learn something and pass it on without really testing the knowledge. He always thinks ‘out of the box’ as some would say. Therefore as his student I have become a better teacher myself. I make sure that when I teach I’ve understood the ideas that were taught by my teacher and I also understand that they must be tested for myself. We have all listened to people saying, ‘because this is what is told’ that they more or less make up answers. We have sounds concepts and principles which run true through the whole system. Understanding the use of structure is something the Chu Sau Lei system is known for, but there are so many levels to this concept and I hear people say they already know what structure is, but I have not seen anyone with a full understanding of it.

BS: So you think cross training is important?

AO: Yes, I think in order to have a full understanding of the martial arts you must be able to work from any range. But I also feel you must develop a good core of an art in order to be able to see the crossovers within that art. This is what is often missing with people who cross train too early in their training. On the other hand never cross training is what makes others inflexible in their thinking and less mobile. Timing is the key and it is different for everyone. If you have a teacher with a good background in the arts then they can give you what is required for your development at that time. I teach my students what they need, not just what I want to teach.

BS: How about reality training, is that part of you training?

AO: I believe realistic training can be part of the training if that is the direction required for the individual to reach their goal. But it is not always the path needed in order to grow. At the end of the day we should be training in order to improve our lives to become better people. To me self defence is a by-product of this not the other way round. For me an art has to be functional so the level of an individuals confidence builds up and from this point the cultivation of spirit starts. Personally I like to spar and enjoy the pressure, but I do not make it compulsorily for my students. However, what I do see is, over a period of time, is that most students become confident enough to enjoy such training, that is if they are taught in the correct manner.

BS: What has the martial arts given you?

AO: More than I can say. It has given me a deep sense of direction in life. A physical and mental discipline. I also feel more in tune with people and my environment. The inner strength that the martial arts has given me has made me feel free from a lot of day to day stresses. It has allowed me to learn about my strengths and weaknesses and become more aware and mindful. Above all it has given me a sense of respect for other people’s ideas and ways.

BS: What types of training methods do you use?

AO: I use the concept and principles of the system to teach the system. I use conditioning exercises, breathing exercises, visualisation, NLP, attributes, body awareness exercises, pressure points, weapons training, humour and so on.
BS: I know you put a lot of time into your students as well as your own training. What is your goal in teaching?

AO: My goal is to help others on the same path. To maintain the standard of the Chu Sau Lei system. I would like to help teach a greater depth in the martial arts, so it can be seen as a whole way of life. To give a practical method to my students to base their development on. To see people use the martial arts to understand life.

BS: What do you think is important for a student to progress?

AO: Having heart. So many people are lazy nowadays and want something for nothing. You’ve got to do the work, find the right type of teacher, who can bring out the best in you, but also guide you past the pitfalls. I’m very lucky to have a group of good students who train hard and understand where the training is taking them.

BS: What would you say are the pitfalls?

AO: In Buddhism we talk about protecting ourselves from hate, greed and ignorance (or illusion), this is an important concept. It gives the student a responsibility for their own actions. If a person has a hatred of others then this will cause anger and will imbalance the individual. If they suffer from greed this can lead to craving, which can take control of the mind. Often people want something for the wrong reason, like being a teacher in the martial arts. I have many people emailing me wanting to know what they need to be an instructor as if I can tell them some magic words to transform them. Only hard work and time will develop the skills, it’s not easy. Ignorance or illusion relates to the ideas that we should not make excuses for a lack of knowledge. Therefore we should take responsibility for our learning and actions. How many times do you hear people say ‘I don’t know’. Why? Because they didn’t ask or try to find out. We have to take charge of our karmic chariot. Please don’t get me wrong, the martial arts do have it all to offer in terms of physical, mental and spiritual development, but it can be a long road so finding someone to give to give the right direction is the all important factor. I am very honoured to have such a guide, Robert Chu, my sifu. I have known in the past how difficult it can be to find your own way.

BS: What is the future of Wing Chun?

AO: Light and dark, as all things are.

BS: What do you mean?

AO: Well, I think more people are constructively questioning what they have been taught which is good. But also many people just want to fill the holes without really understanding the full concept or paying respect to where the teaching came from. As I teach Robert Chu’s system I am contacted by many Wing Chun instructors who want to know what I do, but do not want to empty their cups to come and learn it. I personally do not mind if they come or not, we all find our way. If I can help then great, but I’m not even saying I have anything they need. They seem to have a lot of questions about a system they say they already know. You see I had so many questions then found the right teacher who would answer them and that made me a happy student.

BS: So what’s the answer?

AO: That’s a hard one. I don’t have an answer for everyone. You see Wing Chun is an effective system even when it has what I call errors in it’s application. Therefore if you have someone who is quite tough they can make it work as a fighting art even under these conditions. But Wing Chun has much more to offer than just that. We have to put aside the idea of who is the best fighter and what have you. Enjoy the system and the strengths it gives you without attachment to the trappings of hierarchy. Find out more about the workings of the art and learn to trust the art.

BS: Yes, Wing Chun has had a reputation for infighting in the past and still has, why is that?

AO: I think a lot has to do with people not knowing how to promote their art without putting others down, which I hope is now changing. With cross-training being the in thing, people have relaxed a bit and are now talking instead of fighting, which is how it should be. The exchange of practice should be friendly not with bad intention. Testing the skill to learn more without hurting each other is the way.

BS: What inspires you and how does it influence you?

AO: My teacher and my students make me want to be better than I am in order to keep giving what I’m receiving from the art. My wife who has supported my dreams and my baby girl who smiles with so much pure love, both make me understand what’s really important in life. You see it is not the martial arts which is the life changing event, it merely tunes you in so that you can receive it.

BS: What are your goals, your next step?

AO: To keep learning. I am looking forward to the new column that I will be writing in MAI. I hope I can give some useful insights and introduce some interviews with the many interesting people in the martial arts

BS: What will the column be called?

AO: Good question. (Thinking) Well, I will call it 'A Path in The Arts', because we all walk a path and I will be sharing my experiences and that of those I interview.

BS: Thanks, Alan, we will look forward to it.

Alan Orr is a disciple of Robert Chu Sifu and the European representative of the Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun system.

He is also the UK representative for Guro Mark Wiley in the Filipino martial arts and Sensei Eddy Millis of Shark Tank in NHB/Grappling.

Web: www.alanorr.com

For further information Tel: 07958 908 196 or email: info@alanorr.co.uk

If you would like to know more about Matt Furey catch wrestling: check the net;

www.mattfurey.com
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