In the world of martial arts, Mark Wiley truly needs no introduction. After all, his entire life has been closely tied to the martial arts world. Just a few of his accomplishments are more than many achieve in a lifetime.

As a teenager he worked at Asian World of Martial Arts and competed in dozens of tae kwon do, savate, boxing and wrestling tournaments. As an adult, he served as president of the Filipino Warrior Arts Association, as publisher of Tambuli, as executive editor of Tuttle Publishing, as Editor of Unique Publications, Martial Arts Legends, as associate editor to the Journal of Asian Martial Arts, as associate publisher of Martial Arts Illustrated (U.S.), as on-line marketing director for I&I Sports and Wing Lam Enterprises, as chairman of the International headmasters Society, as president of Wiley Eskrima International and Integrated Energy Medicine. He has written 200 magazine articles, has had 10 of his own books published (with 5 more on the way), has edited 62 books for other masters, has been featured on the cover of several magazines, has been interviewed on the radio and for press in several countries, has been nominated to four martial art Halls of Fame, holds doctorate degrees in both Oriental medicine and alternative medicine, and is a master of several Eskrima, Kung-Fu and QiGong systems. To say nothing of his more than a dozen trips to the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and other places to research Asian martial arts and healing traditions. Did I mention he has studied the arts non-stop for 30 years and has personally studied with over 25 masters?

And yet, some people still have the audacity to question his work, his skill, his knowledge and his conclusions. In this interview, I would like to allow Master Mark to comment on some of the nonsense expressed about him regarding his place in the world of Filipino martial arts, mostly by people who don’t know him. He was in London this past October to teach a series of seminars, and it was then I got the time to sit down and chat with him about such things.

Alan: It would be good to hear you make clear a few points about your Integrated Eskrima system. It seems that some people don’t understand it the depth of what you are teaching.

Mark: Sure. People are always bogged down by their own ignorance. They only know what they know, yet are unaware of the depth of knowledge that they are not familiar with. As such, people try to pidgin hole me as someone who took a little from this art and that art and created a new art. This is not the case.

Alan: What did you do, then?

Mark: Well, I was very fortunate to have been able to study with many masters and grandmasters of Filipino martial arts in the United States and in the Philippines. Not just the popular teachers, but with some of the more obscure masters whose arts and methods are not well know. Not only did I study with these men, I also interviewed them at length about their arts and also shot hundreds of hours of video footage so I could truly study their methods over time.

I have always been obsessed with teaching and training methods. And I wondered why some practitioners were better than others. Why some masters were able to apply specific techniques in sparring, while others were not able to, even though the technique was the same. From study and research and observation and experience I discovered the reason: method of study.

Alan: So some masters had more refined teaching methods?

Mark: Right! But more than that, they had better training methods. You see, the teacher has to be able to convey the information in a clear and applicable way. But the practitioner also needs a method by which such skills can be developed. Many teachers of Filipino arts lack a clear or truly progressive teaching structure and training progression, and so practitioners think it is okay to just do this drill and then that disarm and then do some box-pattern sparring. This is nonsense.

Alan: What you get is people thinking that Filipino Eskrima is all the same and they can just grab techniques and drills from seminars and jam it all together.

Mark: Yes, but we now see that this seminar-training experiment has not worked. But many systems were “created” out of it. Integrated Eskrima, on the other hand, is concerned with both teaching method and training method. What’s more, it is based on a set of principles and concepts where range, footwork and technique are expressly linked only in ways that are effective. Nothing is trained out of context. And nothing is trained out of ignorance; there is a reason for everything. What practitioners of Integrated Eskrima get, then, is an art whose techniques are the same as other systems of eskrima. However, its method of linking those techniques, categorizing them to range and with footwork, and their training methods are different.

Alan: Of all the systems you have studied, which art does Integrated Eskrima most resemble?

Mark: To the outsider, it most closely resembles Kalis Ilustrisimo. However, it is not limited to the techniques of the late grandmaster or the drills of his current heir. Twenty-six of the core Ilustrisimo sword techniques make up the essence curriculum of Integrated Eskrima, but they are developed in a totally different way.

Alan: Are you saying that if you learn Integrated Eskrima then you are learning Kalis Ilustrisimo, but with your teaching methods, learning progression added with your vast background of over a dozen system of eskrima?

Mark: As practitioners study Integrated Eskrima they learn the Ilustrisimo method, yes. But keep in mind, Tatang Ilustrisimo did not have a formal “system” of teaching or training. It was his loose techniques, his timing, his experience that was transferred to us. What we see today in the many splinter groups are the individual masters of Kalis Ilustrisimo presenting the art in their own ways, with their own drills, etc. And this is fine, they are preserving the art in ways that they feel are effective.

Alan: What makes your style different than theirs?

Mark: To be clear, Integrated Eskrima is not an off-shoot of Kalis Ilustrisimo. It is a teaching and training method woven around the core techniques of Antonio Ilustrisimo—not the drills or new techniques of his heir or senior students. Also, the techniques of Integrated Eskrima include more than those found in the Ilustrisimo system, and are all integrated together with footwork and range within a unique and progressive “nucleus drill.” The body mechanics used in executing those techniques is also different, as my study of anatomy and physiology and internal kung fu led me to a deeper understanding of body structure, mechanics and movement methods.

Alan: Since the passing of Antonio Ilustrisimo, the grandmaster of the Kalis Ilustrisimo, there have been some political moves to take control of the system by one of the groups. What is your thought on such things?

Mark: It’s all nonsense. One person was named as their heir of the style, and that is Grandmaster Antonio Diego. No one argues this point. However, for his group to lay claim to the whole of the system, stating that anyone not following his current expression of the art is not permitted to claim the name or teach the art, is just silly. That happened with the Cabales Serrada system as well after Grandmaster Cabales died, and the masters of the art separated and started their own groups. And this has truly hurt the art by creating unnecessary bickering and power plays. Look at wing chun—after Yip Man died so many of his students started their own groups, and express the art in their own way. Yet they all still use the name of the system. That is why we practice martial “art.”

You know, Tony Diego is not even the oldest student of Tatang. Yuli Romo was there first. Also, Romo, Diego and later Christopher Ricketts and then Rey Galang and Romy Macapagal all together developed the drills and teaching structure of the art. We owe all these masters a nod of gratitude for their efforts—not just one of them. Tatang only taught techniques and the experience of using them. So when newcomers stir the pot by saying no one can claim the art if they are not teaching what Diego is teaching, they are only showing their ignorance of the development of the art. What Diego is teaching as a system is not what Tatang taught as an art. Tony Diego is a highly skilled fighter and should be respected for that. It would seem junior students of his have taken it upon themselves to become involved in childish behaviour. Diego should not allow this.

Alan: It would seem funny to anyone who has had first hand experience of your skill, but due to some of these political motives, some have questioned your skill! It was said that you are just a writer and didn’t move like the guys in the Philippines and did not have the true skill. (laughs) Sorry, it’s just so funny…... after 7 years training with you and knowing first hand the kind of skill level you have. With my 20 years in the martial arts you still amaze me. 

Mark: Thanks Alan, it is kind of funny. But why can’t I be a writer and a researcher and a practitioner and also a healer? But you know, when I am doing Integrated Eskrima, I move like a practitioner of that art should move. But if you asked me to show you Serrada Escrima, I will move like that art demands. If you ask me to demonstrate Kalis Ilustrisimo, I will move as the structure of those techniques necessitate. The point isn’t to mimic the movements of your teachers, or to trace the lines of your system, but to transcend the “template” and allow the art to express itself through each individual. Real skill is found in absorbing and internalizing those skills, those techniques, those concepts and in applying them effectively.

Alan: So technique principle and concept is more important than the outer look of a technique.

Mark: Absolutely. Look, beginners have to learn techniques in paint-by-number sequences. Step here, block like his, push here and counter this way. Hopefully after decades of training you understand the technique well enough that you can just slightly turn the body and minutely move your weapon, and you will be not only be effective but essentially efficient. This is the higher level. Sadly, most people don’t reach a decent level of understanding, and judge others based on their own lack of understanding. The standards of the art are much higher than most people realize. It’s the frog in the well analogy: these people are only looking at the art and those in it, through their own self-imposed lens.

Alan: Why do you think a group would try to do say you are not qualified?

Mark: I think a lot of martial artists are small minded and petty. They get into the arts to boost their ego and feel better about themselves. I know I did, as I was young and timid. But I grew past that part and into a more philosophical realm, a healing realm, and an educated realm. Some people get hung up on the politics and low-level aspects of the art, and make a stink because anything else compromises their perceived place within the arts.

You know, in the U.S. a certain online digest has been dogging me for over a decade regarding my association in Serrada Escrima and my relationship with the late grandmaster Angel Cabales. Cabales promoted me to Master of Escrima and not only asked me to write a series of books on his art, but had one of his students type a foreword for him that he signed and mailed to me to endorse the books. And this digest group, who are only students of an offshoot Serrada group, try to discredit me on their site by rejecting the truth of what happened and instead manufacturing their own “truth”. They don’t know me, don’t know my relationship with the late grandmaster, and instead of emailing or calling me for clarification, or requesting an interview, they make things up, use me as a vehicle to promote their own political agenda. They perpetuate a culture of ignorance. I have no time for this.

Alan: Doesn’t this anger you?

Mark: I haven’t lost a night of sleep yet. Understand the source and disregard the source. Their opinions don’t exist, they are an illusion. They are opinions of me based on their self-created image of “Mark Wiley” and pawned off as fact. But their image of “Mark Wiley” is not actually Mark Wiley. You know, if they ever got real clarification from me, and had to apologize or admit they are wrong, so much of what they have said is wrong that the foundation of their position of authority on the Internet would crumble. I understand this, so I ignore them. 

Alan: But there are groups in the U.K. that have tried to spread nonsense about you, too.

Mark: Right. Recently there was a teacher in the U.K. and his student who claimed I could not teach Kalis Ilustrisimo on my recent seminar tour because I am not currently a member of the head association in the Philippines. He also stated that I do not move anything like the masters in the Philippines. He and his student were to meet up with me for lunch to discuss this matter and put it to rest. But the teacher never showed up for the meeting. He is a coward. However, his student did show up and with an open mind. I asked him to demonstrate for me. After I got a look at what he was being taught, I knew the opinions of his teacher held no water and were just more examples of childish blabbering.

Alan: Did you feel you had to teach him a lesson?

Mark: No, no. You have to open your hand in friendship in such instances, not create more enemies. I spent over an hour with him, correcting his techniques and giving pointers and explaining points he did not understand. When he saw me move, his first words were: “You move just like the guys in the Philippines!” Funny how he believed it after seeing it, but didn’t believe it initially for the simple reason his teacher said it wasn’t so. I respect him for showing up and for being open minded. It is a shame, but I think some teachers have tried to play down my skill level in order to build their name or group. To say they offer the so-called truth of an art, and this is somehow different than what I am sharing with people. It’s really not necessary. People will train with people they like and people they trust. These things have to be earned. Never trust someone who’s just feeds stories. That is not what the martial arts are about.

Alan: Wasn’t there yet another incident of misinformation about you that came up during another of your seminars here?

Mark: Oh, right, this was about my connection to the Binas Arnis system. I was a private student of the late Professor Herminio Binas of Negros Occidental. He wanted to name me as heir to his family style of Arnis. The only request was that I teach no other system but his. After all, how could I be the headmaster of one art, yet believe that practice of another art was necessary to be complete. But I like all styles of martial art. So after a few weeks of thinking about it, I declined Binas’ offer and instead suggested he pass the art on to his son, who should be the heir. And that was that.

At my seminar, my Serrada Eskrima student Jon Broster asked me about this, saying that this online digest was stating that I lied to Binas, promising to only teach his art in order to inherit it, and then I went on and taught other styles anyway. I just shook my head in disbelief as they had the story completely backward. It seems the moderator of the digest took it upon himself to post this misinformation as fact, after not even remembering where I supposedly had said it. He had no source to cite, and only a skewed memory, and claimed fact from it. I told Jon what actually transpired and reported back to the digest, but they offered no apology. But this is their modus operandi: smear someone with lies, and when the truth is told just ignore it. People need to be careful about what they read and choose to believe.

Alan: Why do you think this happens?

Mark: In the end I think what happened was that because I have trained and met so many masters and spent so much time training Eskrima, that I started to see beyond techniques and understood systems more. Much like your Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun, you are telling people that they are focued on the wrong things. Some people will thank you for enlightening their learning and others will hate you for making them question themselves, their teachers and their art. Some teachers have built a name on the methods they use, and the so-called histories they tell, and they do not want to admit they could be wrong. The true martial artist will always be non-attached and move forward toward growth in the arts and as a human being.

Alan: This type of political moves is what prompted the start of British Council of Kali Eskrima Arnis Instructors of which we are proud to be part of.

Mark: Yes, liked minded teacher in the U.K. with the real training in the arts now have a place to share and grow with each other, thanks to the brain child of Guro Pat O’Malley. This is a good move for teachers to share kowledge, support one another, and foster an environment of brotherhood in the arts. In the Philippines, all of the teachers know each other and get along well. Mostly, anyway. But more than not. Here in the West, we are such babys about everything and open our mouths to speak before knowing what the hell we are commenting on. Now people have a place to go to look for good teachers of each system at www.bckeai.co.uk

Alan: What is the key to learning Eskrima?

Mark: Patience, practice and a detailed mind. You must be patient because skill takes years or decades to develop. Some people acquire it quickly, but most do not. You must practice with consistency and in a proper way or skill will never deveop. And you must think about what you are doing. Just because you were told to do something a certain way doesn’t mean it is the only way or even the best way to do it. Think.

Alan: What is the key to mastering Eskrima?

Mark: The path of learning and the goal of mastery are one and the same. But if you don’t practice an art whose techniques are correctly paired to specific ranges and footwork, then you can spend a lifetime practicing low-level martial arts. And there is really no point to that.

Alan: What is the most important lesson you have learned from the arts?

Mark: That the truth is always there. If you look for it, you will find it. But often times you have to look where you think it is not, and there it may very well be. No art has all the answers, and no teacher does either. The most important lesson I learned was that there is a single truth with many expressions. It’s just that some expressions fall way off the beaten path, and some are right on it. You need to follow the expressions that follow the path of truth.

Alan: Thank you Master Mark for your time today. How can people reach you?

Mark: It’s been my pleasure. I can be reached via my website www.mark-wiley.com. And if people want to learn more about Integrated Eskrima in the U.K. they should contact Alan Orr.

Alan Orr is a disciple of Robert Chu Sifu and the European representative of the Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun system.

Teacher of Tui Na Chinese Massage Therapy

He is also the European representative for Guro Mark Wiley in the Filipino martial arts and Sensei Eddy Millis of Shark Tank in NHB/Grappling. MMA Fight Coaching.

www.alanorr.com
www.thechinesemedicineacademy.co.uk
www.warriorfunctionaltraining.com

For further information Tel: 07958 908 196 or email: info@alanorr.co.uk